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08 April 2007 @ 16:37
 
I saw this survey in fanthropology and found it quite interesting. I don't think they'd be very interested in me as I'm a Brit currently living in Japan, but maybe someone else wants to fill it out.

Survey on loan words as used in anime fandoms

One thing that might surprise you about the foreign community in Japan is that random Japanese is more common and more accepted than any online community. I've said for ages that I'd love to do some kind of study on it (ever since I was on a train and overheard two guys saying "Let's meet on Mokuyoubi (Thursday)". It was bizarre -- why would you replace that word? I wanted to know more.) But it also turns up in professional publications. Take the following example:

Need I go into the eroticism inherent in the yukata? Everyone loves the idea of unwrapping a present, desho?

That last sentence is hideous. People will rant and rave if they find "fangirl Japanese" in fanfic, but it's perfectly acceptable if you use it in for-pay work in Japan. (Sentence taken from Metropolis, a well-known English magazine in Japan.)

I can completely understand replacing nouns or adjectives, particularly ones that don't have a direct translation. Oh, I'm totally pro-kawaii. I just don't understand replacing grammar unless it's 'ne?' because that's quicker than a full-blown English tag question. And yeah, it's kind of cute.

I didn't mean to write that much at all...!




This is an interesting newspaper article, linked by Miss Snark.




I went to a fantastic restaurant last night called Talat in Shimo-Kitazawa. Anyway, while it specialises in cheap Asian dishes, the main attractions are the bingo cards and the janken. When you first arrive, the waiter plays janken (a kind of rock, paper, scissors) with you to determine if you'll get free icecream (we did!). Then they give you a bingo card -- every drink you order gets you another number. We didn't win.
 
 
 
くらやみひみつ: Tonkkurayamihimitsu on 8th April 2007 08:52 (UTC)
X333 seeeeeee aren't you glad you went with me! *glomp*

btw, Sakura house called cause of that bitches complaint. -_- told them what's going on.. going to bitch to her (politely) next time i see her. She has no right to treat my friends that way. *cling*
Williamgenkischuldich on 8th April 2007 09:07 (UTC)
Yeah! Glad you got home safely!

What did they say? "We heard you had a friend visiting your house at three in the afternoon...?" They aren't going to charge you, are they? I would just put in a complaint about her through official channels and not bitch at the lady herself. She's clearly insane anyway.
くらやみひみつ: Tonkkurayamihimitsu on 8th April 2007 12:46 (UTC)
they were like "we were informed that you had someone staying over that night" and i'm like.. i had a friend over for the DAY and we watched a dvd, then went out for dinner. I had no one over overnight. and then they're like "well did anyone in the house have anyone over overnight?" and i told them no, that i was falsely accused and that she didn't believe my friend who has lived here for over a year and where you live.. so they were just like "sorry to bother you" and hung up.
Sharon: GW Duo Take it Backsharona1x2 on 8th April 2007 09:47 (UTC)
I can understand and accept people who speak English using random Japanese words if they are living in Japan (although your first example was a little weird).

The reason I dislike it in fanfic is that the characters using it usually aren't anywhere near Japan. I'm still in GW fandom. It makes no sense if someone like Duo Maxwell speaks random Japanese. ^___^
Williamgenkischuldich on 8th April 2007 09:52 (UTC)
I dunno -- it could be an interesting theory on the adoption of foreign loanwords and neologisms in the future, couldn't it? :) I guess all my fandoms have at least one Japanese character.

But really my bitterness stems from the difference between people writing random Japanese into their blog posts and fanfiction out of love and the people who are getting paid to write using the most random words.
百加☆nitaspitas on 8th April 2007 09:58 (UTC)
I need to read Miss Snark more often. The article was really good. I was just going to skim it, but I ended up reading the whole thing, watching the last video, and re-reading the beginning (because I was just skimming at first ^^;)

And the hardest thing for me to not overuse when typing to my non-anime-fandom-related friends is the Japanese emoticon. There seem to be a lot more, and they just describe how I feel a lot better sometimes, especially since I'm surrounded by it here. When talking, things like ヘぇー?and うん come out a lot more.

In my head, I'll use things like なんじゃこりゃー!? because I hear it more than any English equivalent. Plus, with the Okayama-ben, it's just more fun to say. And I picked up 〜とか from another American teacher before hearing it all the time from the Japanese people around me.

lol, I guess this came out longer than I'd planned, too :P
Williamgenkischuldich on 8th April 2007 10:14 (UTC)
Hm, I can understand using Japanese in speech, although using words that unambiguously have translations -- like "Thursday" -- are strange to me. I can understand using English/Japanese blends too -- "genki drinks" and "toppatsued", for example. They are pretty unique concepts to our world and have been worked into our daily lives.

I distinguish these cases from people constantly using Fangirl Japanese in paid writing. Sometimes it's used to give the impression of "more Japanese than you" and is a kind of technique to alienate as much as anything else.
百加☆nitaspitas on 8th April 2007 11:18 (UTC)
yeah, I thought the Thursday thing was weird, too. And it seemed like the author of the 'yukata' sentence was trying too hard to be trendy or something...

Also, colloquial Japanese almost always looks strange to me when it's romanized anyway. But maybe that's just me. I guess because the sounds don't all translate to romaji very well (especially things like vowels that are barely pronounced in Japanese and the consonants (clusters) that don't exist the same way in English and Japanese). One of the biggest issues we had at work last month (other than moving) was trying to figure out the correct way to romanize all our students' names for their end-of-term certificates.

There are some cases where I'm more used to seeing the romaji than the Japanese (usually names and titles), but I usually prefer the Japanese version (if only for the reading practice). I'm probably the wrong person to be responding to this anyway, because I don't read that much fanfiction, and I don't encounter Fangirl Japanese very often (unless a friend uses it, in which case I don't really care ^^) And most of my non-internet reading is in Japanese, unless I'm teaching it for a lesson... (I haven't been reading much ^^;)
nekojitanekojita on 8th April 2007 14:31 (UTC)
I know I tend to use 'ne' a fair bit, and I think of 'kawaii' usually meaning something *really* cute, so when talking to someone else familiar w/ anima/Japanese, I'd go w/ kawaii to pump up the cuteness quotent of an object and expect to be understood.
Williamgenkischuldich on 11th April 2007 16:10 (UTC)
Oh yeah -- I definitely understand the use of kawaii. I like the word very much and I get pretty annoyed when people don't seem to think it's a real word or that the fangirls are misusing it (we're really not!).
nekojitanekojita on 11th April 2007 16:17 (UTC)
LOL, I just remembered the first time I used it w/ a Japanese friend and I wasn't stressing the 'a' sound enough or the double 'i' at the end so it was coming out more as 'kowai'. Which had puzzled her greatly since I and another person (who was taking Japanese) had used it and she wondered why we were so scared of cute things!

Did you get the package yet?
Williamgenkischuldich on 11th April 2007 16:19 (UTC)
The package? No, I haven't. ^^ When did you send it?
nekojitanekojita on 11th April 2007 16:36 (UTC)
I sent it on Tuesday last week, I believe, so hopefully it'll be out there very soon!
Ariss Tenohariss_tenoh on 8th April 2007 15:13 (UTC)
Does this Miss Snark have an lj?
Williamgenkischuldich on 11th April 2007 16:13 (UTC)
Nope, she's on Blogspot.

Here: http://misssnark.blogspot.com/
Ariss Tenohariss_tenoh on 11th April 2007 17:28 (UTC)
Thanks for the link!
Starrie: poof!crabsushi on 10th April 2007 07:08 (UTC)
I think my opinion on Japanese-mixed English varies by the day, just because every time I make up my mind about it, I find several exceptions. ._.;

Whew.. o_o Didn't mean to read the whole violin article, but sorta got sucked in.

The restaurant sounds fun!

Also, totally unrelated: You're with Nova, yeah? Are the branches in the Tokyo area all right? I like the school I'm at but I want to transfer up to Tokyo in the summer so I can see the city and travel northern Japan better. Fukuoka is not exactly convenient for sightseeing.

~Mami, who's too lazy to sign out of her other lj
Williamgenkischuldich on 11th April 2007 16:17 (UTC)
Yeah. I think I'm okay with everything, then I see random words in pro pieces and -- worst of all! -- randome Japanese in a pro opinion piece on how the writer is "more Japanese than thou".

Yeah, but I've never worked at a single Tokyo branch. :) I've spent all my time up until now in Chiba.
Starrie: coffeecrabsushi on 12th April 2007 01:12 (UTC)
Yeah, that sort of attitude just deserves a punch to the face, methinks. ._.

Ah~~ kay kay. ^__^ Thanks! It's just that I have this mental image of the Tokyo branches being all stiff and cardboardy under the pressure of it being Tokyo, so I was curious.
Williamgenkischuldich on 12th April 2007 06:25 (UTC)
From what I hear, Tokyo branches have higher numbers than average of slightly older men who have to stay in Japan because they married a Japanese woman and can't leave. They seem a little depressed, actually... But because of this, they're simultaneously trying to climb that ladder but don't really care. It's weird.
Starrie: ashescrabsushi on 12th April 2007 06:28 (UTC)
...Huh. That sounds ... interesting. It's kind of funny, though, since it's the stereotypical dream of a western man: migrate to Japan, marry a beautiful Japanese woman, and work an easy job with plenty of time for sightseeing. Welcome to the reality of it, I guess.